Wednesday 24 February 2010

How to be a Wizard




Many thanks to White for this transcript..... Wizzy did say to me that there are a few bits missing, I don't know, I just publish and be damned.....I'm sure if you have an serious, or silly, questions, then you can talk to the Wizard....

So....for those of you/us who missed the talk..


--- Wizard Gynoid: Precision Art Sculpture -----------------
Class transcript

The class took place February 22nd, 2010 at 6pm on the platform above the Burning Life Afterburn Art Project plot.
Wizard Gynoid prepared a display of various math sculptures to illustrate her lecture material. You can see some pictures of what was shown here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/white_lebed/sets/72157623480682604/
Also Wizard brought very useful free building tools which she was using to create her sculptures - various rezzers and scripts.
Those will be available till March 1st here
Go grab them while you can!

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[18:02] White Lebed: Hello, Everybody! Welcome to another session of Burniversity. Many of you have admired Wizard Gynoid's perfect math sculptures but never knew how she could make them. Today we will have a chance to learn a few secrets and find out more about one of the most interesting art styles - math art. Please, wellcome - Wizard Gynoid!
[18:02] Benski Korhonen: Clapping!
[18:02] Wizard Gynoid: yay
[18:02] Corcosman Voom applauds
[18:02] Tomkin Euler: Yay!
[18:02] Miso Susanowa: can we use calculators?
[18:02] Nickola Martynov: claps
[18:02] White Lebed: from this point point the chat log will be recorded for publishing
[18:02] Scottius Polke: Applause!!!
[18:02] Scottius Polke: Applause!!
[18:03] Wizard Gynoid: I have quite a few of my own objects scattered around here, some with VERY high prim counts.
[18:03] Wizard Gynoid: If you are having a hard time with lag and it's taking a while to rez everything, you have the option of setting your draw distance down to the minimum and your computer won't have to work so hard to render them.
[18:04] Wizard Gynoid: I'm about to get chatty about my own passion in Second Life, that is to say building precise artistic sculptures from geometric objects.
[18:04] Wizard Gynoid: Have you ever seen Scope Cleaver's architectural builds?
[18:04] Tomkin Euler: Nay..
[18:04] Corcosman Voom: Yes
[18:04] Wizard Gynoid: Scope's impressive non-linear architecture has been featured at Burning Life and on the Princeton sims and elsewhere.
[18:05] Wizard Gynoid: Have you had the pleasure of seeing Seifert Surface's mathematical objects?
[18:05] Corcosman Voom: Yes
[18:05] Tomkin Euler: yep..
[18:05] Wizard Gynoid: If not, check them out on his sim “xyz”.
[18:05] Wizard Gynoid: Have you seen the big perfect geodesic domes at Burning Life?
[18:05] Wizard Gynoid: Have you wondered how these things were built?
[18:06] Wizard Gynoid: Perhaps you have tried to build simple geometrical objects, using nothing more than the Second Life viewer UI (User Interface) and more specifically, the Object Editer.
[18:06] Wizard Gynoid: Have you tried to make things like this?
[18:06] 3d2 Pintens: o yes
[18:06] Corcosman Voom: Yes
[18:06] Tomkin Euler: yes..
[18:06] Nickola Martynov nods
[18:07] Tomkin Euler: well, no, actually..
[18:07] Nickola Martynov: the operative word is 'tried'
[18:07] Wizard Gynoid: Or these:
[18:08] Wizard Gynoid: If you have tried to make objects like this by hand, like I have, then you know how difficult it is.
[18:08] Wizard Gynoid: First of all, you have to have incredible patience.
[18:08] Wizard Gynoid: You have to have a basic knowledge of plane geometry.
[18:09] Wizard Gynoid: You have to be able to calculate angles, and determine the placement of x number of faces.
[18:09] Wizard Gynoid: You have to create the faces and place them in the proper location, with the proper “rotation.”
[18:10] Wizard Gynoid: A Dodecahedron
[18:10] Wizard Gynoid: This is not a trivial task, to say the least.
[18:10] Wizard Gynoid: How do you make that pentagon face? And how do you place 12 of them in perfect alignment and rotation?
[18:11] Wizard Gynoid: Once you've spent countless hours struggling to build these objects by hand, then you would no doubt gladly accept the help that scripted rezzers can give you.
[18:11] Corcosman Voom: Indeed
[18:11] Wizard Gynoid: I'm going to chat about some of those tools and how they can be used by artists to create sculpture.
[18:12] Wizard Gynoid: This is Nand Nerd's Radial Noob Rezzer.
[18:12] Wizard Gynoid: Nand Nerd is one of Second Life's best geometric scripters.
[18:12] Wizard Gynoid: #rez
[18:12] Tomkin Euler: woo hoo..
[18:12] 3d2 Pintens: ooooo
[18:12] Wizard Gynoid: I'm just demonstrating a simple geometric rezzer here.
[18:12] Nickola Martynov: wow
[18:13] Wizard Gynoid: delete
[18:13] Wizard Gynoid: Nand once rezzed a 256 meter, sim-sized 6,000 prim sphere. I've seen pictures.
[18:14] Oberon Onmura: Does Nand make that available to artists?
[18:14] Wizard Gynoid: you can ask him oberon.
[18:14] Oberon Onmura: nice
[18:14] Wizard Gynoid: Cadroe Murphy is one of SL's oldest geometric scripters. He has a couple of helpful rezzers that have been around for a while.
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Sides: 8.000000
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Radius: 4.000000
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Height: 1.000000
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Hollow: 0.000000
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Z Offset: 0.000000
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Mode: Ring
[18:14] RingMaker1.03: Color: <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000>
[18:15] Wizard Gynoid: This is Ring Maker.
[18:15] Wizard Gynoid: Ring Maker will rez objects in a perfect ring, hence the name.
[18:16] Tomkin Euler: huh..
[18:16] Wizard Gynoid: Ring Maker is a freebie tool and is over there with my buddy Philip Linden.
[18:17] White Lebed: many of those rezzers are available on xstreet for minimal fee or free - they are very easy to find, you just need to know what to look for
[18:17] Oberon Onmura: I've played with it a bit
[18:17] Wizard Gynoid: i have a bunch of these rezzers available for free next to Philip Linden over there
[18:17] Wizard Gynoid: The Cadroe Lathe is above my head.
[18:18] Wizard Gynoid: Watch this basic object being rezzed.
[18:19] Tomkin Euler: Goo...
[18:19] Wizard Gynoid: lag doesn't seem to be too bad
[18:19] Wizard Gynoid: knock on prim
[18:19] Corcosman Voom: famous last words
[18:19] Corcosman Voom: : )
[18:20] Romper Lohner: ty for the tools Wizard
[18:20] Wizard Gynoid: The Cadroe Lathe is only $500L, and can be found here: http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=56642
[18:20] Wizard Gynoid: btw, i don't have a deal with cadroe. hehe
[18:21] Wizard Gynoid: The Cadroe Lathe is only $500L, and can be found here: http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=56642
[18:21] Wizard Gynoid: Cadroe made a more sophisticated rezzer, called the Shape Maker. That is above my head, and above the Lathe.
[18:21] Oberon Onmura: wizard - do you drop the object to be rezzed into the lathe?
[18:22] Wizard Gynoid: no, you define what you want to rez with the settings
[18:22] Wizard Gynoid: Watch as I rez a torus with it.
[18:22] Oberon Onmura: I mean, the pieces out of which the object is made ...
[18:22] Wizard Gynoid: i love this part
[18:23] Wizard Gynoid: Any Comments or Questions while that is rezzing?
[18:23] Romper Lohner: !how many prims when done/
[18:23] Oberon Onmura: I'd want to use prescripted units
[18:23] Tomkin Euler: it's like vacuum deposition.. spitting chemicals onto silicon wafers..
[18:24] Wizard Gynoid: the number of prims depends on the settings you define
[18:24] Wizard Gynoid: a sim-sized sphere can be 6000 prims
[18:24] Wizard Gynoid: i think i might have the record with my 6,672 E8. ;-)
[18:25] Takni Miklos: whats an ee ate?
[18:25] Wizard Gynoid: you try sculpties. that saves prims. but this lecture isn't about sculpties
[18:25] Areal Loonie: will any just move pre-existing prims? or do they all rez new prims?
[18:26] Wizard Gynoid: they rez new prims
[18:26] Corcosman Voom: You've done some things on Reaction Grid....I presume all your scripts worked there?
[18:26] Wizard Gynoid: i've tried doing sculpties, but so far they don't turn me on.
[18:26] Wizard Gynoid: most scripts work on Raction Grid, open sim, with a few minor fixes
[18:26] Tomkin Euler: for an instant, it's a 'shroom..
[18:27] Romper Lohner: it would make a good mold for sculpty creation "note' to self
[18:27] Wizard Gynoid: The Shape Maker is a freebie and I've put it over by Philip Linden there for you to pounce on.
[18:28] Wizard Gynoid: that worked pretty well.
[18:28] Wizard Gynoid: Seifert Surface has made a few sophisticated rezzers.
[18:28] Wizard Gynoid: two of them are here
[18:28] Oberon Onmura: is there a set menu of shapes? or is it open-ended?
[18:29] Wizard Gynoid: seifert's torus and tapering torus rezzers
[18:29] Wizard Gynoid: ha i didn't know seifert was here.
[18:29] Wizard Gynoid: yaya
[18:30] Wizard Gynoid: ok, so let's demonstrate seiferts torus rezzers
[18:30] White Lebed: those tools are pretty useful for architectural builds - and as you know the 2010 Burning Life theme is Metropolis :)
[18:30] Wizard Gynoid: it's a bit laggy but they seem to be working
[18:32] Wizard Gynoid: now, i like these because you can scale them. you can take pieces and use them in sculpture
[18:32] Wizard Gynoid: scope uses these i think in his architectural builds
[18:33] Wizard Gynoid: the tapering is finishing up
[18:33] Wizard Gynoid: Pieces of these shapes can be used in bigger sculptures.
[18:34] Wizard Gynoid: seifert has very graciously made these available to this class.
[18:34] Corcosman Voom: Three cheers for Seifert : )
[18:34] Oberon Onmura: :-)
[18:34] Sabrinaa Nightfire: thank you, Seifert
[18:34] Wizard Gynoid: This is Seifert's Parametric Surface Rezzer
[18:35] Corcosman Voom: Hehe
[18:36] Oberon Onmura: Seifert - are these Mono scripted?
[18:36] Oberon Onmura: just thinking about the Mono rezzing bug
[18:37] Wizard Gynoid: i love this parametric
[18:37] Oberon Onmura: hehe
[18:38] Wizard Gynoid: All of these rezzers have scripts and settings that can be tweaked to create great non-linear shapes, that can be made into sculptures.
[18:38] Wizard Gynoid: You can go directly into the scripts and change settings, or you can read the README files in the Contents for instructions.
[18:38] Wizard Gynoid: These shape rezzers are the virtual painter's brush, the virtual sculptor's chisel...
[18:38] Takni Miklos: and where do we find those rezzers and scripts?
[18:39] Wizard Gynoid: Now, there are other kinds of tools, other kinds of rezzers.
[18:39] Wizard Gynoid: Perhaps you've seen the rezzers that will rez the major stars in the immediate vicinity around the Earth, or the rezzers that will rez a molecule.
[18:39] Tomkin Euler: I've seen lots of graphs.. stock values..
[18:39] Wizard Gynoid: These rezzers are creating spheres at defined points in a grid around the rezzer.
[18:40] Wizard Gynoid: I would demonstrate but that would be messy here.
[18:40] Wizard Gynoid: And for good demonstration purposes we need to have a convenient “kill/die” command to aid in easy cleanup.
[18:40] Wizard Gynoid: Some of these rezzers have one, but most don't, so you have to delete by hand. And that would be difficult here.
[18:41] Explorer Dastardly: all the old hippies can make a geodesic dome, lol..
[18:41] Wizard Gynoid: Around us I have placed some examples of what I think are some of my best creations.
[18:41] Wizard Gynoid: Most of these were built with a rezzer that first identifies the points where those spheres go.
[18:41] Wizard Gynoid: These are called the “vertices.”
[18:41] Wizard Gynoid: The rezzer reads the positions (the coordinates) of the vertices from a notecard, and then places a sphere on that point.
[18:42] Wizard Gynoid: Various mathematical formulas can be used to determine these vertice points.
[18:42] Wizard Gynoid: The software program Mathematica has been helpful to calculate the vertices of some of these objects.
[18:42] Oberon Onmura: how do the coords get onto the notecard?
[18:42] Wizard Gynoid: cut and paste oberon
[18:42] Oberon Onmura: hmm
[18:42] Wizard Gynoid: The next step is to “connect the dots.”
[18:42] Wizard Gynoid: How do we do that?
[18:43] Wizard Gynoid: We do that with a script that sends “intelligent” struts out to connect a pair of vertices.
[18:43] Wizard Gynoid: The strut is “intelligent” because it contains a script inside it.
[18:43] Wizard Gynoid: A notecard identifies the vertex pairs, and a script inside the rezzed strut shapes, orients, rotates and sizes the strut to fit between the two vertice points.
[18:43] Oberon Onmura: cool
[18:43] Wizard Gynoid: Some of these rezzers are based on work by Lionel Forager and Catherine Omega Heavy Industries.
[18:44] Wizard Gynoid: An example of this can be found here: http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=LibraryBezierCurveDemo
[18:44] Tomkin Euler: handy.. I have always wanted a board stretcher in firstLife..
[18:44] Wizard Gynoid: My own work has been largely dependent on the scripting genius of Desdemona Enfield.
[18:44] Wizard Gynoid: With a rezzer of this kind, we can draw “lines” between points.
[18:45] Wizard Gynoid: Desdemona has been generous enough to make one of these rezzers available to the public domain.
[18:45] Wizard Gynoid: And I will demonstrate it here and now.
[18:45] projection - v1a: By your command: version=28Aug08, free=7301
[18:46] projection - v1a: rezzing 27 points
[18:46] projection - v1a: rezzing 216 lines
[18:46] Wizard Gynoid: This particular objects starts with 27 point/vertices.
[18:46] Nickola Martynov: oooo
[18:46] Wizard Gynoid: The script then connects the 27 points with 216 line segments, for a total prim count of 243.
[18:46] Wizard Gynoid: Note that the finished object is not a linked set.
[18:47] Merlin Gray: and to thing we used to have to use toothpicks and a ton of glue
[18:47] Wizard Gynoid: This is similar to the technique I used to rez my 6,672 prim E8 Polytope – vertices connected by edge lines, an earlier example of which is displayed close by to the West, just across the sim line.
[18:47] Wizard Gynoid: Next to that E8 is a 2,889 prim Klein Bottle. The same basic principles were used – vertices connected by edge lines.
[18:47] projection - v1a: lengths in mm: [1236, 1070, 1902, 2000]
[18:47] projection - v1a: counts of lengths: [60, 60, 36, 60]
[18:47] projection - v1a: By your command: version=28Aug08, free=7301
[18:48] White Lebed: I guess we need another class - how to find 6000+ prims in SL to play with
[18:48] Wizard Gynoid: The script to rez the Klein Bottle is open source and available here: http://zonjacapalini.wordpress.com/2009/07/20/2889-working-with-very-large-linksets-in-opensim/
[18:48] Wizard Gynoid: Desdemona's rezzer is also available free of charge over there by my friend, Philip Linden.
[18:48] Oberon Onmura: the link limit is what? 256 prims?
[18:48] Corcosman Voom: How To Cozy Up To Sim Owners, White
[18:48] Wizard Gynoid: true oberon. altho not true in open simulator.
[18:48] Oberon Onmura: aha
[18:48] Sabrinaa Nightfire: lol
[18:49] Wizard Gynoid: i have linked this 2889 prim object into one object on Reaction Grid.
[18:49] Oberon Onmura: cool
[18:49] Wizard Gynoid: Questions before I move on?
[18:49] Wizard Gynoid: ha, sure way to crash a sim free
[18:50] Wizard Gynoid: For artistic purposes, sometimes we like to create textures on the surfaces of the faces of these geometric objects.
[18:50] Wizard Gynoid: These textures can be animated, so the entire sculpture comes alive.
[18:50] Wizard Gynoid: An example of a great SL artist who uses this technique is my friend Glyph Graves.
[18:51] Wizard Gynoid: Glyph likes to create geometric objects and then applies animated textures to the surfaces, with lots of alpha (transparency).
[18:51] Wizard Gynoid: Let's take this one step further.
[18:51] Wizard Gynoid: We already have a rezzer that creates wireframe sculptures.
[18:51] Wizard Gynoid: What if I want to apply FACES to the wireframe?
[18:52] poly projector - v4g: [0]: By your command: version=3Dec09
[18:53] Wizard Gynoid: Check this out:
[18:53] poly projector - v4g: [1]: executing: rhombicuboctahedron: vertices
[18:53] Wizard Gynoid: Note that this rezzer is rezzing the vertices, then connecting the dots with lines.
[18:53] poly projector - v4g: [2]: executing: rhombicuboctahedron: edges
[18:53] Wizard Gynoid: However, it goes one step further and places FACES between the vertices.
[18:53] Wizard Gynoid: In effect, we have made the wire frame sculpture into a solid object.
[18:54] Wizard Gynoid: or a skinned object
[18:54] Wizard Gynoid: rather
[18:54] Wizard Gynoid: Note that we are creating both triangle and square FACES.
[18:54] poly projector - v4g: [3]: executing: rhombicuboctahedron: triangle faces
[18:54] Wizard Gynoid: Faces like this can be difficult to animate textures on, but it can be done.
[18:54] poly projector - v4g: [4]: executing: rhombicuboctahedron: quadrilateral faces
[18:55] poly projector - v4g: [5]: done
[18:55] Wizard Gynoid: yay that worked
[18:55] Nickola Martynov: bravo
[18:55] Wizard Gynoid: that's desdemona's masterpiece script
[18:55] Corcosman Voom: Interesting that it does the quadrilateral faces with triangles also
[18:56] Wizard Gynoid: Are there any Questions? I have two.
[18:56] Wizard Gynoid: Are these geometric constructions of mine Art?
[18:56] Oberon Onmura: so ... you'll texture each face individually?
[18:56] Wizard Gynoid: What do you think?
[18:57] Wizard Gynoid: God is a geometer
[18:57] Nickola Martynov: Well...it could be argued that this is just engineering
[18:57] Corcosman Voom: : )
[18:58] Merlin Gray: ....and then it could be argued that engineering is an art form by the broadest definition
[18:58] Romper Lohner: DNA is geometrical as well, beauty to the eye of those that can see it
[18:58] Nickola Martynov: ART!!!!
[18:59] Merlin Gray: DidnNickola..lol
[18:59] Wizard Gynoid: thank you very much for your kind attention.
[18:59] Wizard Gynoid: SOCK!!!!!!!
[18:59] Merlin Gray: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[18:59] Corcosman Voom: Thank you, Wizrd. Great presentation
[18:59] White Lebed: thank you Wizzy!
[18:59] Oberon Onmura: yay wizard!
[18:59] Nickola Martynov: thank you Wizard
[18:59] Wizard Gynoid: SOCK!!!!!!!
[19:00] Merlin Gray: I was in a conversation about making Polys when your notecard came out last week..thanks for this
[19:00] Wizard Gynoid: your very welcome. i had fun.
[19:00] Nickola Martynov: Was the surface rezzer one of the freebies?
[19:00] Tomkin Euler: Whee!
[19:00] White Lebed: one more tool in your art box :) go make something amazing!
[19:00] 3d2 Pintens: where's phillip?
[19:01] Wizard Gynoid: philip is free too, but you have to go find him.
[19:01] Romper Lohner: ty wizard
[19:01] Feathers Boa: philip linden is my love child
[19:01] Sabrinaa Nightfire: thanks, Wizzy
[19:01] Miso Susanowa: "Art is not eternal, boys" - Ken Kesey
[19:01] White Lebed: after this difficult class do we deserve a recess?
[19:01] SciFiSancy Chaplynski: Thank you Wizard:)
[19:02] Lampoon Destiny: are you accepting 'tippage'?
[19:02] FreeWee Ling: I'll volunteer to be the final arbiter of what is art. Just show it to me and I'll tell you ;)
[19:02] White Lebed: during March - no classes! we will have the Porta Potty grand show
[19:02] Miso Susanowa: do we get extra credit for this one White?
[19:02] White Lebed: yes, Miso
[19:02] White Lebed: if you make a Klein bottle
[19:02] Wizard Gynoid: i'm amazed i didn't crash
[19:02] White Lebed: and fill it with something tasty
[19:03] White Lebed: no, we went well
[19:03] Feathers Boa: okies everyone
[19:03] Miso Susanowa: yes lets have a round of applause for the sim not crashing!
[19:03] Feathers Boa: have fun and stuff
[19:03] Miso Susanowa: YAY!
[19:03] Miso Susanowa: *claps!!!!*
[19:03] Corcosman Voom: I keep hoping somethng from all tese braIny folks will sink in by osmosis
[19:03] White Lebed: thank you again, guys for wearing light stuff
[19:03] Nickola Martynov: ・*゜*APPLAUSE*゜*・
[19:03] Feathers Boa: i am outta here!
[19:03] Mab MacMoragh: ♪♫♥ Applauds!!! ♥♫♪
[19:03] Tomkin Euler: fun on a bun...
[19:03] Feathers Boa blows kisses around the room
[19:03] Wizard Gynoid: bye feathers
[19:03] Nickola Martynov: Was the parametric surface rezzer included in the scripts?
[19:04] Wizard Gynoid: i think it was yes nickola
[19:04] White Lebed: someone had questions for Seifert?
[19:04] Nickola Martynov: I don't see it over there :-(
[19:04] Miso Susanowa: ack Waya got off my feet :(
[19:05] Miso Susanowa: *puts socks back on*
[19:05] Tomkin Euler: it was there when I walked over...
[19:05] Scottius Polke: SOCK!!!!!!!
[19:05] Miso Susanowa: SOCK!!!!!!!
[19:05] Waya Sion: lol
[19:05] Scarp Godenot: I think it must be some secret language they have going.....
[19:05] White Lebed: waya behave
[19:05] Scottius Polke: SOCK!!!!!!!
[19:05] DeadheadDMT Infinity: I was multitasking all the way through... I will have to read the chat history later to see what programs you used
[19:06] Scarp Godenot dodges the sock
[19:06] Kazuhiro Aridian: sock?
[19:06] Miso Susanowa: i saw it, but it disappeared, maybe it was "bought" as a original
[19:06] White Lebed: I think the kids ARE ready for a recess
[19:06] Kazuhiro Aridian: lawl
[19:06] White Lebed: looks like overheat from all this info
[19:06] Tomkin Euler: Hi, Seifert.. what were the functions?
[19:06] Miso Susanowa: Scarp: if you can dodge a sock, you can dodge a ball.
[19:06] Scarp Godenot: heh
[19:06] Tomkin Euler: sin(x=y) maybe?
[19:06] Seifert Surface: oh
[19:07] Miso Susanowa: let x =... x
[19:07] Tomkin Euler: (x+y), rather..
[19:07] Seifert Surface: i think its sin(x+y)
[19:07] White Lebed: Wizzy, can you leave the rezzers here till the end of Feb?
[19:07] Wizard Gynoid: i hope someone took pictures
[19:07] Waya Sion: if there's a recess, whats the next class?
[19:07] Waya Sion: lol
[19:07] Kazuhiro Aridian: do we get cookies?
[19:07] Miso Susanowa: the class of all classes that is not part of the given class, of course
[19:07] quadrapop Lane: I diod wiz - still am :)
[19:07] Tomkin Euler: Rocking..
[19:07] White Lebed: I will publish the transcript and some people might want to come and get those
[19:07] Wizard Gynoid: ✿⁂✿¨*:•.•:*''* KIMBA *''*:•.•:*¨✿⁂✿

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You can find transcripts from other classes on the Transcript Board
􀀁
just click on the boxes - they have notecards.
Also I send all the transcripts to the subscribers of the Afterburn Art Program list. You can join it by clicking on the kiosk right next to the board.

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White Lebed - the Burning Life Art Department Lead; the Curator of Afterburn Art Program
white.lebed@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/white_lebed

....end of transcript.....

.....of course, having the tools helps...but you need a Wizzy brain too...

:))

1 comment:

  1. It was a really great informative class, Wizzy :) thank you for taking your time to do it!

    and thank you for posting the transcript, Soror!

    ReplyDelete

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