tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post715339202995970191..comments2023-12-25T21:43:14.986-08:00Comments on sororNishi: Narrative is primary? .... I have my doubtssororNishihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17385408562954387986noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-23960868765670073002009-06-02T16:09:27.522-07:002009-06-02T16:09:27.522-07:00well.... I'll have to go a lie down in a darkened ...well.... I'll have to go a lie down in a darkened room with a wet towel on my head...:))<br />I'm a little mystified.<br /><br />You are right about visual pleasure..... but my unconscious loves itsororNishihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385408562954387986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-583045020166331202009-06-01T14:31:51.505-07:002009-06-01T14:31:51.505-07:00I do not think that everything is narrative - in f...I do not think that everything is narrative - in fact, I would dare to suggest that very little which is put into words ever actually is?<br /><br />And I would have to be an extremely superficial sort of a person to wish to make up stories when I look at Karnak or Nonnatus' birds in a way that would try to make sense of them. <br /><br />Your wonderful Zen quote "long, immense and deliberate derangement of the senses" already suggests narrative in that in it is embedded the very notion of temporality and process.<br /><br />Yes narrative does indeed mean story (in it's strictest sense)- where I think we differ is in our definitions of what a story is. For me (amongst much else) it is primarily a vastly complex set of verbal, half verbal and non-verbal elements which conglomerate, to quote the same exact phrase once again, to create a "long, immense and deliberate derangement of the senses".<br /><br />But you are right: The word "narrative" is insufficient. I need to think of something better I suppose. Part of my usage stems from my interest in Jung who does use it somewhat along these lines when he talks about archetypes and fairy tales...<br /><br />But...<br /><br />I cannot help but add that I am extremely suspicious of "visual pleasure" as a standalone attribute.<br />:-)Alpha Auerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412727378736602680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-73969429340558161812009-05-30T15:52:44.090-07:002009-05-30T15:52:44.090-07:00ahhh..well.. if everything = narrative, then we ...ahhh..well.. if everything = narrative, then we are certainly in trouble, verbally.<br /><br />While I fully understand that film work and comics, books and the like which rely on narrative are not exactly what you meant, I did feel that the word was used to indicate some sort of understanding, mental understanding, which I am strongly against, and you seem to be also.<br /><br />I realise that even the title of a piece of visual art has a narrative (story) element to it, but hopefully no implied understanding. <br /><br />My personal favourite definition of art "long, immense and deliberate derangement of the senses" implies a certain confusion like a Zen koan. A "short circuiting" of the intellectual capacity we use to arrange ourselves in the world.<br />A sensory enigma rather than the word Enigma.<br /><br />Are the stories you want to make up when visiting Karnak, or meeting Nonnatus's birds, implied? or simply an effort by our brains, unable to leave things stand.<br /><br />An attempt to make sense of sense impressions?<br /><br />I did not want to make up a story, but just soaked up the visual pleasure at let it stand as seen.<br /><br />It may just be that narrative is not the right word, after all it does mean story.<br /><br />;))sororNishihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385408562954387986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-27041327036221277792009-05-30T04:01:16.094-07:002009-05-30T04:01:16.094-07:00Hi Soror,
I am going to repeat what Bettina has al...Hi Soror,<br />I am going to repeat what Bettina has already very cleverly pinpointed above: <br />Enigma = Narrative.<br />Just as Metaphor = Narrative.<br /><br />So, when I say that narrative is primary, I am in no way talking about a "story" with a beginning a middle and end. But moreover (and even more importantly) I am most certainly not talking about intellectual vapidity which hides behind 6 pages of multi-syllable undecipherable gibberish. If anything, I mean the exact opposite of that when I emphasize narrative. I have in fact been trying to talk about a visual language which transcends the spoken/written word in my emphasis to "narrative". Obviously I seem to have failed quite miserably... Which would give me even more reason to not to rely on the spoken word!<br />;-)Alpha Auerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412727378736602680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-16259914708957320692009-05-23T10:29:59.960-07:002009-05-23T10:29:59.960-07:00Yes, I studied architecture and too much weight wa...Yes, I studied architecture and too much weight was given to post-design rationalisation.... crap is crap no matter how well it's "justified"...sororNishihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385408562954387986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-70170292846939392622009-05-23T08:17:38.168-07:002009-05-23T08:17:38.168-07:00soror . . .agreed. I feel that some written narra...soror . . .agreed. I feel that some written narrative is/can be part of the work, but to paraphrase William Eggleston (photographer) from documentary, "William Eggleston In The Real World": "words and photography have nothing to do with each other." <br /><br />(Photography, read as visual art.)<br /><br />That's extreme but to me but if you need to much 'blah blah blah' you're just spinning, distracting or propping up the lame. <br /><br />(I've likely been subject to too many critiques where students were better talkers than photographers.) :pAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-84404332089774267922009-05-21T14:23:18.641-07:002009-05-21T14:23:18.641-07:00@Bettina....heheheh...great idea as long as all si...@Bettina....heheheh...great idea as long as all six pages were blank.<br /><br /><br />@Snowy, you can join my new movement then..:))sororNishihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385408562954387986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-17408894363047538792009-05-21T11:18:17.026-07:002009-05-21T11:18:17.026-07:00!!!!Narative! I'm having a hard enough time trying...!!!!Narative! I'm having a hard enough time trying to accept the idea of a "concept"Kelvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03688109482947379090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590156455847470480.post-21205198542642362202009-05-21T09:09:13.505-07:002009-05-21T09:09:13.505-07:00VERY interesting, Ms. Nishi. I should point out th...VERY interesting, Ms. Nishi. I should point out that contemporary art is built on the foundation of lengthy (6 pages is nothin!) explanations. <br /><br />But you see... right there... at the very end of your post, you created your own narrative: Enigma over narrative. Now, simply write 6 pages on that topic and you might have the beginning of an art concept / movement / perspective. ;-)Bettina Tizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08304718957705639572noreply@blogger.com